Curse

LifeInfusion · Aug 01, 2006, 02:04 AM // 02:04

Tell me, how is it different from Order of Apostasy with an assassin in your team? I know it is 25 energy, but you have to put it into perspective.

Khift · Aug 01, 2006, 03:14 AM // 03:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMosesPHD

Evasion, blind, blocking.

CoP > Blind.
AoG > Guardian.
Monks don't use evasion stances. No room.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeInfusion

Tell me, how is it different from Order of Apostasy with an assassin in your team? I know it is 25 energy, but you have to put it into perspective.

OoA requires a character dedicated to spamming it, thus it is active enchantment removal. AoG is fire and forget and does not require a character dedicated to it, thus it is passive enchantment removal. OoA requires the actions of two characters to remove any enchantments, AoG only requires one character, thus AoG > OoA.

Kai Nui · Aug 01, 2006, 04:03 AM // 04:03

Oh wow awesome, Order of Apostasy died as a 4 month old newborn baby.

Nothing like a 25 energy spell that hurts you for damage and lasts only 5 seconds to be killed by an incredibly ass hole skill like this. Seriously Anet has to have ass holes doing this shit to us.

Terra Xin · Aug 01, 2006, 04:47 AM // 04:47

Keep in mind that when a form ends, you are interrupted quite heavily. It doesn't take much skill to kite the dervish for 48 seconds. The only trouble I have is with its skill description, and the dervishes inherent ability to strike adjacent foes.

It is possible to make the separation between 'target foe' and 'adjacent foes' so if you were aiming for a target, then any other foe you strike will be unaffected.

Another problem with this skill is found in a possible flaw in which I havent been able to test. By sole definition, if you use an attack skill, an enchantment is removed from target foe, this doesnt mean that the attack skill needs to be used to 'hit' the target, it just requires you to use it.

Elena · Aug 01, 2006, 05:05 AM // 05:05

remember in MOST situations you have team members to help you out have youre friendly aeromancer keep that dervish blind for the duration of his enchant and bam no enhant strips then all /point and /laugh

Dobermann · Aug 01, 2006, 08:22 AM // 08:22

Yes!! i love u ANet Avatar Of Grenth has finished of monks, so NO MORE DUAL SMITE

Spura · Aug 01, 2006, 09:07 AM // 09:07

Blinding and kiting doesn't stop warriors from getting attacks in, so why shoudl it stop dervish?

Terra Xin · Aug 01, 2006, 10:39 AM // 10:39

Because if you dont kite and blind, you'll die faster. Of course the warrior will get a few attacks in, but at least he'll be wasting his time chasing you.

Spura · Aug 01, 2006, 12:11 PM // 12:11

So you'll run and every time you'll stop to cast, your boon goes bye bye and you'll have to keep paying for that cost. Also like warrior, dervish can use speed stances or get help from team, say a water ele. In that case I don't see your enchants staying on much.

Lordhelmos · Aug 01, 2006, 12:12 PM // 12:12

Dervish are disturbing altogether... AoE attacks that strip and deal big damage? What about elementalists and other classes that are completely dependent on enchantments? Seriously Eles and caster were seriously shafted during the Nightfall beta. I hope eles especially get a massive boost for their new skills. At this rate, the 2 new classes are going to boot them out of PVP entirely. Now seriously, theres a psychotic dervishing spinning around a giant scythe thats raking everything around him, stripping enchantments on each hit, and using an avatar form with some huge bonus... on top of that lets not forget the monk behind him spamming air of enchantment and zealots fire..

Like im REALLY going to run up to him and use starburst? Oh wait hes coming this way, armor of earth... oh wait forgot, that doesn't work either. And lets not forget the elemental damage from junk like dust shroud and AoE conditions...

So really, what's an ele going to do in PvP now?

Horseman Of War · Aug 09, 2006, 09:50 PM // 21:50

whaaaaa i cant maintain my enchantments whaaaaaaaa

How about you just run away? Its about time they did something to counter the enchant-monks anyways.

if you ever fought a good pvp mesmer or necro youd already know about enchantment removal- my mesmer is a monk-killer... and I dont need a dervish to do that.

Another thing- The FORM elites are for mystic attribute, meaning that unless you are a primary dervish, you wont be using them.

Not to mention, if your team begins to focus their fire on Grenths Av.- it will be forced to go defensive, and will not be able to use attack skill spams to rob you of your 4 little buffs. I played Avatar of Grenth on the PvP preview weekend, and that was the counter that i encountered the most when i went enchantment-reaping.

Horseman Of War · Aug 09, 2006, 09:57 PM // 21:57

um btw.... if you dont like the dervish, use the well of profane.

dervishes are weak- and itll only take a few weeks of Nightfall for people to realize this.

empathy, cripple/slow, blind- you can counter them the same as a warrior, or counter them the same as a caster-> there are SO MANY *MORE* ways to counter a dervish than any other class.

Linkusmax · Aug 09, 2006, 10:26 PM // 22:26

Cripshot Rangers and Energizing Winds Fire Elementalists are both great against dervishes. So yeah wee!

natus · Aug 09, 2006, 10:52 PM // 22:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horseman Of War

um btw.... if you dont like the dervish, use the well of profane.

Well of the profane will strip their enchants, that'll heal them and bring them to full energy.

Well of the profane will only stop people from casting enchants that targets other allies/yourself, dervish enchants doesn't target the dervish, they're just cast, so Profane doesn't work.
It's the same with Shadow Shroud, they can cast right through it.

This was tested during the pvp weekend, might be changed when the acrual game comes out, though.

gene terrodon · Aug 10, 2006, 05:05 PM // 17:05

One thing everyone is forgetting...Dervish arnor is only 70.
So a spike will drop them pretty easily.
Not to mention the points made by Horseman.

If you have three or more people around a Dervish, it's more than likely they are Melee (War, Sins) - Yeah strip an enchant...but your dead.
If a Dervish makes a bee line for your Monk, all it takes is for your Tank to get on him and a caster to spike him...DEAD.

With the avatar skills, kiting and some body blocking will counter this and for 2 minutes (120s) the dervish is a pin cushion...DEAD

While the dervish has powerful attacks, they lack in defense, and IMHO will be 1st target of melee in battles to prevent Enchant strips.

I see the Dervish being treated like Sins in PvE...People trying to tank with 70AL and dying...who wants that on their team.
In PvP, they will be standard on alot of teams, but the perception that they are all powerful in a mis-conception.

Remember...Defense wins championships.

gabrial heart · Aug 10, 2006, 08:31 PM // 20:31

Spirit of Disenchament? Not to mention order of Apostasy (entire party disench on attack).. Plenty of enchantment removal skills, don't see boon prots suffering much. For an avitar, grenth is the worst IMO.

Knight of Balthazer · Aug 10, 2006, 08:53 PM // 20:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMosesPHD

@ the comment about other classes healing.
Both new classes have some random healing spells. The Dervish can do some great healing with Imbue Health (I think that's the name it was). It's Mysticism and it did about 260+ healing depending. I don't remember what the downside was, it might've been it removes an enchant or something, (which is just standard for a Dervish) but it costs 10 nrg and has a 1/4 cast, like Infuse Health, without the sacrifice of half your health. The recharge though I can't remember...but it's not much and recharges in plenty of time to get back before the next wave of a spike comes around.

the name is imbue health and can heal up to 300 health...this needs to be elite if it stays the same because its healed for 5...50% of your health(maximum 300) and have you tried to kite from a dervishes in avatar of balthazer??? and a tank hardly does anything to stop it from beating on your monk... with the +40 armor i had a tank continue to hit me while i was in avatar of balthazer and using the AoE skills like balths rage that resulted in the monk AND the warrior dead.
the dervishes doesnt need a nerf bat it need something like a nerf tank...
yay im academy page now =)

Silver_Fang · Aug 10, 2006, 09:00 PM // 21:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knight of Balthazer

the name is imbue health and can heal up to 300 health...this needs to be elite if it stays the same because its healed for 5...50% of your health(maximum 300) and have you tried to kite from a dervishes in avatar of balthazer??? and a tank hardly does anything to stop it from beating on your monk... with the +40 armor i had a tank continue to hit me while i was in avatar of balthazer and using the AoE skills like balths rage that resulted in the monk AND the warrior dead.
the dervishes doesnt need a nerf bat it need something like a nerf tank...
yay im academy page now =)

Avartar and Dervish is good. You dont treat them as a melee warrior, you have to treat them as melee caster.

Phades · Aug 11, 2006, 12:17 AM // 00:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMosesPHD

@ the comment about other classes healing.
Both new classes have some random healing spells. The Dervish can do some great healing with Imbue Health (I think that's the name it was). It's Mysticism and it did about 260+ healing depending. I don't remember what the downside was, it might've been it removes an enchant or something, (which is just standard for a Dervish) but it costs 10 nrg and has a 1/4 cast, like Infuse Health, without the sacrifice of half your health. The recharge though I can't remember...but it's not much and recharges in plenty of time to get back before the next wave of a spike comes around.

The recharge was 10s. It is also a spell, so the dervish would not be a close combat setup if it was packing that spell.

What many people are forgetting is that the dervish's main strength is the enchantments. The scythe skills are not that great without them, nor are they as efficient or deadly as the enchantment skills. As it was, each scythe skill used generally required a slot devoted to at least 1 enchantment that was not meant to be stripped away, due to how the other support skills functioned. Throw in avatar of grenth and you have alot of wasted space, never mind requiring a run speed boost that did not conflict with IAS, or risk using a 15e skill (which was rather unwieldy in practice for a profession with low energy and i almost expect rangers to figure out a way to abuse at some point in time).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khift

OoA requires a character dedicated to spamming it, thus it is active enchantment removal. AoG is fire and forget and does not require a character dedicated to it, thus it is passive enchantment removal. OoA requires the actions of two characters to remove any enchantments, AoG only requires one character, thus AoG > OoA.

There is a huge difference between a team of phys damage removing enchantments on every attack versus a solo aggressor possibly removing enchantments while only using attack skills. I dont recall any scythe skills repeating on demand without stripping enchantments, which would require more skill slots devoted to enchantments for each enchantment to be removed in a short time frame if it did hit. In practice, the form of grenth couldnt even beat the master of enchanting, while your basic shock warrior can. Considering how RoF works, it basically nullifies the effect that the form has entirely.

There really is no valid comparison between the two elietes and even in the short term something simple like expunge enchantments is far more effective.